1,672. If the Dionysian one is psychedelic, does it really make its way into some kind of psychedelic Christianity? So we not only didn't have the engineering know-how-- we used to think-- we didn't have even settled life to construct something like this. Like savory, wormwood, blue tansy, balm, senna, coriander, germander, mint, sage, and thyme. The universality of frontiers, however, made the hypothesis readily extendable to other parts of the globe. But so as not to babble on, I'll just say that it's possible that the world's first temple, which is what Gobekli Tepe is referred to as sometimes, it's possible the world's first temple was also the world's first bar. A rebirth into a new conception of the self, the self's relationship to things that are hard to define, like God. And that's all I present it as, is wonderfully attractive and maybe even sexy circumstantial evidence for the potential use of a psychedelic sacrament amongst the earliest Christians. And then was, in some sense, the norm, the original Eucharist, and that it was then suppressed by orthodox, institutional Christianity, who persecuted, especially the women who were the caretakers of this tradition. In the Classics world, there's a pagan continuity hypothesis with the very origin of Christianity, and many overt references to Greek plays in the Gospel of John. And I don't know if it's a genuine mystical experience or mystical mimetic or some kind of psychological breakthrough. Brian C. Muraresku (@BrianMuraresku) / Twitter There aren't any churches or basilicas, right, in the first three centuries, in this era we're calling paleo-Christianity. What I see is data that's been largely neglected, and I think what serves this as a discipline is just that. Which turns out, it may be they were. We know that at the time of Jesus, before, during, and after, there were recipes floating around. There's evidence of the mysteries of Dionysus before, during, and after the life of Jesus, it's worth pointing out. A profound knowledge of visionary plants, herbs, and fungi passed from one generation to the next, ever since the Stone Age? You mentioned there were lots of dead ends, and there certainly were. Is this only Marcus? Mark and Brian cover the Eleusinian Mysteries, the pagan continuity hypothesis, early Christianity, lessons from famed religious scholar Karen Armstrong, overlooked aspects of influential philosopher William James's career, ancient wine and ancient beer, experiencing the divine within us, the importance of "tikkun olam"repairing and . Nage ?] [2] Do you think that by calling the Eucharist a placebo that you're likely to persuade them? And I think we're getting there. 36:57 Drug-spiked wine . They followed Platonic (and other Greeks) philosophy. pagan continuity hypothesis - diamondamotel.com And so that's what motivated my search here. would certainly appreciate. That also only occurs in John, another epithet of Dionysus. And I think it's proof of concept-- just proof of concept-- for investing serious funding, and attention into the actual search for these kinds of potions. Nazanin Boniadi And I write, at the very end of the book, I hope that they'd be proud of this investigation. I mean, I wish it were easier. And so even within the New Testament you see little hints and clues that there was no such thing as only ordinary table wine. And I think it does hearken back to a genuinely ancient Greek principle, which is that only by fully experiencing some kind of death, a death that feels real, where you, or at least the you you used to identify with, actually slips away, dissolves. This book by Brian Muraresku, attempts to answer this question by delving into the history of ancient secret religions dating back thousands of years. Those religions featured psychedelic beer and ceremonies lead by women . But even if they're telling the truth about this, even if it is accurate about Marcus that he used a love potion, a love potion isn't a Eucharist. I'm not sure where it falls. So. And it was the Jesuits who encouraged me to always, always ask questions and never take anything at face value. #649: Rick Rubin, Legendary Music Producer The Creative Act Which is a very weird thing today. Now I understand and I appreciate the pharmaceutical industry's ability to distribute this as medicine for those who are looking for alternatives, alternative treatments for depression and anxiety and PTSD and addiction and end of life distress. Let me just pull up my notes here. Psychedelics Weekly - Prince Harry and Psychedelics, Proposed BRIAN MURARESKU: Right. [1] According to this theory, older adults try to maintain this continuity of lifestyle by adapting strategies that are connected to their past experiences. And she happened to find it on psilocybin. I think psychedelics are just one piece of the puzzle. In 1950, Martin Luther King, Jr. wrote " The Influence of the Mystery Religions on Christianity " which describes the continuity from the Pagan, pre-Christian world to what would become early Christianity in the decades and centuries before Jesus Religion & Mystical Experiences, Wine So at the very-- after the first half of the book is over, there's an epilogue, and I say, OK, here's the evidence. And anyone who drinks this, [SPEAKING GREEK], Jesus says in Greek, you remain in me and I in you. I am excited . So whatever was happening there was important. So after the whole first half of the book-- well, wait a minute, Dr. Stang. And does it line up with the promise from John's gospel that anyone who drinks this becomes instantly immortal? These are famous figures to those of us who study early Christianity. There's all kinds of reasons I haven't done it. Nage ?] What was the real religion of the ancient Greeks? Brought to you by GiveWell.org charity research and effective giving and 5-Bullet Friday, my very own email newsletter.Welcome to The Tim Ferriss Show, where it is usually my job to deconstruct world-class performers to tease out their routines, habits, et cetera that you can apply to your own life. So to find dog sacrifice inside this Greek sanctuary alludes to this proto-witch, Hecate, the mother of Circe, who is mentioned in the same hymn to Demeter from the 8th, 7th century BC, as kind of the third of the goddesses to whom these mysteries were dedicated. CHARLES STANG: OK. Now let's move into the Greek mystery. It's a big question for me. The phrasing used in the book and by others is "the pagan continuity hypothesis". Oh, I hope I haven't offended you, Brian. So when you take a step back, as you well know, there was a Hellenic presence all over the ancient Mediterranean. Certainly these early churchmen used whatever they could against the forms of Christian practice they disapproved of, especially those they categorized as Gnostic. When you start testing, you find things. Brian's thesis, that of the Pagan Continuity Hypothesis, was explored by Alexander Hislop in his "The Two Babylons", 1853, as a Protestant treatise in the spirit of Martin Luther as Alexander too interjects the Elusinian Mysteries. CHARLES STANG: Wonderful. If you die before you die, you won't die when you die. I mean, this really goes to my deep skepticism. But I'm pressing you because that's my job. So this whole water to wine thing was out there. The Immortality Key, The Secret History of the Religion With No Name. They're mixing potions. BRIAN MURARESKU: I'm asked this question, I would say, in pretty much every interview I've done since late September. And I'll just list them out quickly. So the Eastern Aegean. Now you're a good sport, Brian. I see it as-- well, OK, I'd see it as within a minority. Now that the pagan continuity hypothesis is defended, the next task is to show that the pagan and proto-Christian ritual sacraments were, in fact, psychedelicbrews. And for those of you who have found my line of questioning or just my general presence tedious, first of all, I fully appreciate that reaction. So how exactly is this evidence of something relevant to Christianity in Rome or southern Italy more widely? And then at some point they go inland. I would love to see these licensed, regulated, retreat centers be done in a way that is medically sound and scientifically rigorous. As a matter of fact, I think it's much more promising and much more fertile for scholarship to suggest that some of the earliest Christians may have availed themselves of a psychedelic sacrament and may have interpreted the Last Supper as some kind of invitation to open psychedelia, that mystical supper as the orthodox call it, [NON-ENGLISH SPEECH]. Which is really weird, because that's how the same Dina Bazer, the same atheist in the psilocybin trials, described her insight. And I think we get hung up on the jargon. To assess this hypothesis and, perhaps, to push it further, has required years of dogged and, at times, discouraging works in archives and archaeology. CHARLES STANG: Brian, I wonder if you could end by reflecting on the meaning of dying before you die. I'm paraphrasing this one. Continuity Questions - 36 Questions About Continuity - QuestionDB 55 This is very likely as it seems that the process had already started in the 4th century. The Immortality Key: The Secret History of the Religion with No Name With more than 35 years of experience in the field of Education dedicated to help students, teachers and administrators in both public and private institutions at school, undergraduate and graduate level. 283. And this is at a time when we're still hunting and gathering. The continuity theory proposes that older adults maintain the same activities, behaviors, personalities, and relationships of the past. And so for me, this was a hunt through the catacombs and archives and libraries, doing my sweet-talking, and trying to figure out what was behind some of those locked doors. "The Influence of the Mystery Religions on Christianity" And all we know-- I mean, we can't decipher sequence by sequence what was happening. And I want to say that this question that we've been exploring the last half hour about what all this means for the present will be very much the topic of our next event on February 22, which is taking up the question of psychedelic chaplaincy. And if you're a good Christian or a good Catholic, and you're consuming that wine on any given Sunday, why are you doing that? CHARLES STANG: So that actually helps answer a question that's in the Q&A that was posed to me, which is why did I say I fully expect that we will find evidence for this? So let's start, then, the first act. This event is entitled, Psychedelics, The Ancient Religion With No Name? Mark and Brian cover the Eleusinian Mysteries, the pagan continuity hypothesis, early Christianity, lessons from famed religious scholar Karen Armstrong, overlooked aspects of influential philosopher William James's career, ancient wine and ancient beer, experiencing the divine within us, the importance of "tikkun olam"repairing and . Brian C. Muraresku - Priory Of Sion We're going to get there very soon. #646: Brian C. Muraresku with Dr. Mark Plotkin The Eleusinian Mysteries, Discovering the Divine, The Immortality Key, The Pagan Continuity Hypothesis, Lessons from Scholar Karen Armstrong, and Much More by The Tim Ferriss Show CHARLES STANG: OK. . It draws attention to this material. And I don't know what that looks like. he goes out on a limb and says that black nightshade actually causes [NON-ENGLISH SPEECH], which is not unpleasant visions, i.e. CHARLES STANG: So in some sense, you're feeling almost envy for the experiences on psychedelics, which is to say you've never experienced the indwelling of Christ or the immediate knowledge of your immortality in the sacrament. So that's something else to look into. That would require an entirely different kind of evidence. Maybe I'm afraid I'll take the psychedelic and I won't have what is reported in the literature from Hopkins and NYU. BRIAN MURARESKU: That's a good question. And I'm trying to reconcile that. I'm not sure many have. 40:15 Witches, drugs, and the Catholic Church . It was it was barley, water, and something else. And that's the mysteries of Dionysus. There's also this hard evidence that comes out of an archaeological site outside of Pompeii, if I have it correct. And there you also found mortars that were tested and also tested positive for evidence of brewing. I'm going to come back to that idea of proof of concept. Throughout his five books he talks about wine being mixed with all kinds of stuff, like frankincense and myrrh, relatively innocuous stuff, but also less innocuous things like henbane and mandrake, these solanaceous plants which he specifically says is fatal. Now, the great scholar of Greek religion, Walter Burkert, you quote him as musing, once-- and I'm going to quote him-- he says, "it may rather be asked, even without the prospect of a certain answer, whether the basis of the mysteries, they were prehistoric drug rituals, some festival imp of immortality which, through the expansion of consciousness, seemed to guarantee some psychedelic beyond." And you find terracotta heads that could or could not be representative of Demeter and Persephone, the two goddesses to whom the mysteries of Eleusis were dedicated. CHARLES STANG: You know, Valentinus was almost elected bishop of Rome. You want to field questions in both those categories? He co-writes that with Gordon Wasson and Albert Hofmann, who famously-- there it is, the three authors. Like in Israel. 18.3C: Continuity Theory. Mark and Brian cover the Eleusinian Mysteries, the pagan continuity hypothesis, early Christianity, lessons from famed religious scholar Karen Armstrong, overlooked aspects of influential philosopher William James's career, ancient wine and ancient beer, experiencing the divine within us, the importance of " tikkun olam "repairing and improving And Ruck, and you following Ruck, make much of this, suggesting maybe the Gnostics are pharmacologists of some kind. So throughout the book, you make the point that ancient beer and wine are not like our beer and wine. Brian launched the instant bestseller on the Joe Rogan Experience, and has now appeared on CNN, NPR, Sirius XM, Goop-- I don't even know what that is-- and The Weekly Dish with Andrew Sullivan. and he said, Brian, don't you dare. difficult to arrive at any conclusive hypothesis. I just sense a great deal of structure and thoughtfulness going into this experience. What's different about the Dionysian mysteries, and what evidence, direct or indirect, do we have about the wine of Dionysus being psychedelic? And I answer it differently every single time. So back in 2012, archaeologists and chemists were scraping some of these giant limestone troughs, and out pops calcium oxalate, which is one of these biomarkers for the fermentation of brewing. No, I think you-- this is why we're friends, Charlie. You become one with Christ by drinking that. That's our next event, and will be at least two more events to follow. And, as always the best way to keep abreast of this series and everything else we do here at the Center is to join our mailing list. Now, I think you answered that last part. #646: Brian C. Muraresku with Dr. Mark Plotkin The - Chartable So again, if there were an early psychedelic sacrament that was being suppressed, I'd expect that the suppressors would talk about it. I did go straight to [INAUDIBLE] Papangelli in Eleusis, and I went to the museum. The question is, what will happen in the future. That's the big question. And I did not dare. Thank you. But please do know that we will forward all these questions to Brian so he will know the sorts of questions his work prompts. But it was not far from a well-known colony in [INAUDIBLE] that was founded by Phocians. I have a deep interest in mysticism, and I've had mystical experiences, which I don't think are very relevant. Newsweek calls him 'the world's best human guinea pig,' and The New York Times calls him 'a cross between Jack Welch and a Buddhist monk.' In this show, he deconstructs world-class performers from eclectic areas (investing, chess, pro sports, etc . I fully expect we will find it. Books about pagan continuity hypothesis? According to Muraresku, this work, which "presents the pagan continuity hypothesis with a psychedelic twist," addresses two fundamental questions: "Before the rise of Christianity, did the Ancient Greeks consume a secret psychedelic sacrament during their most famous and well-attended religious rituals? And what the FDA can do is make sure that they're doing it in a way that it's absolutely safe and efficacious. And I-- in my profession, we call this circumstantial, and I get it. So I really follow the scholarship of Enriqueta Pons, who is the archaeologist on site there, at this Greek sanctuary that we're talking about in Catalonia, Mas Castellar des Pontos. At Cambridge University he worked in developmental biolo. Books about pagan continuity hypothesis? Please materialize. Now, Brian managed to write this book while holding down a full time practice in international law based in Washington DC. So why the silence from the heresiologists on a psychedelic sacrament? But the next event in this series will happen sooner than that. Here's the proof of concept. And what do you believe happens to you when you do that? #646: Brian C. Muraresku with Dr. Mark Plotkin The Eleusinian Mysteries, Discovering the Divine, The Immortality Key, The Pagan Continuity Hypothesis, Lessons from Scholar Karen Armstrong, and Much More Brought to you by GiveWell.org charity research and effective giving and 5-Bullet Friday, my very own email newsletter. BRIAN MURARESKU: Great question. Correcting Key Points in Muraresku, The Immortality Key But Egypt seems to not really be hugely relevant to the research. What was being thrown into it? Well, the reason I mention Hippolytus and Marcus and focus on that in my evidence is because there's evidence of the Valentinians, who influenced Marcus, in and around Rome. What's significant about these features for our piecing together the ancient religion with no name? And Brian, it would be helpful for me to know whether you are more interested in questions that take up the ancient world or more that deal with this last issue, the sort of contemporary and the future. I expect there will be. We call it ego dissolution, things of that nature. And when we know so much about ancient wine and how very different it was from the wine of today, I mean, what can we say about the Eucharist if we're only looking at the texts? And what does this earliest history tell us about the earliest evidence for an ancient psychedelic religion? Maybe I have that wrong. Not much. And if it's one thing Catholicism does very, very well, it's contemplative mysticism. Where does Western civilization come from? I mean, if Burkert was happy to speculate about psychedelics, I'm not sure why Ruck got the reception that he did in 1978 with their book The Road to Eleusis. So the big question is, what kind of drug was this, if it was a drug? What's the wine? Let me start with the view-- the version of it that I think is less persuasive. BRIAN MURARESKU: But you're spot on. . That's the promise in John's gospel, in John 6:54-55, that I quote in the book. Things like fasting and sleep deprivation and tattooing and scarification and, et cetera, et cetera. So in the mountains and forests from Greece to Rome, including the Holy Land and Galilee. Mona Sobhani, PhD Retweeted. All he says is that these women and Marcus are adding drugs seven times in a row into whatever potion this is they're mixing up. That's staying within the field of time. Before the church banned their use, early Christians used - Substack So let's start with one that is more contemporary. I mean, I asked lots of big questions in the book, and I fully acknowledge that. So in my mind, it was the first real hard scientific data to support this hypothesis, which, as you alluded to at the beginning, only raises more questions. That there is no hard archaeobotanical, archaeochemical data for spiked beer, spiked wine. Again, it's proof of concept for going back to Eleusis and going back to other sites around the Mediterranean and continuing to test, whether for ergotized beer or other things. I was satisfied with I give Brian Muraresku an "A" for enthusiasm, but I gave his book 2 stars. CENTER FOR THE STUDY OF WORLD RELIGIONS, Harvard Divinity School42 Francis Avenue, Cambridge, Massachusetts 02138 617.495.4495, my.hds |Harvard Divinity School |Harvard University |Privacy |Accessibility |Digital Accessibility | Trademark Notice |Reporting Copyright Infringements. Samuel Zuschlag - Durham University - Charlotte, North - LinkedIn Are they rolling their eyes, or are you getting sort of secretive knowing nods of agreement? If your history is even remotely correct, that would have ushered in a very different church, if Valentinus's own student Marcus and the Marcosians were involved in psychedelic rituals, then that was an early road not taken, let's say. And what we know about the wine of the time is that it was prized amongst other things not for its alcoholic content, but for its ability to induce madness. Tim Ferriss is a self-experimenter and bestselling author, best known for The 4-Hour Workweek, which has been translated into 40+ languages. In my previous posts on the continuity hypothesis . It seems to me, though, that the intensity and the potency of the psychedelic experience is of an order of magnitude different than what I may have experienced through the Eucharist. Because what tends to happen in those experiences is a death and rebirth. I'm not. And he was actually going out and testing some of these ancient chalices. Read more about The Immortality Key by Brian Muraresku Making Sense by Sam Harris So if you were a mystic and you were into Demeter and Persephone and Dionysus and you were into these strange Greek mystery cults, you'd be hard-pressed to find a better place to spend your time than [SPEAKING GREEK], southern Italy, which in some cases was more Greek than Greek. Pagan polemicists reversed the Biblical story of the Israelites' liberation from Egyptian bondage, portraying a negative image of Israelite origins and picturing them as misanthropes and atheists. So, you know, I specifically wanted to avoid heavily relying on the 52 books of the [INAUDIBLE] corpus or heavily relying too much on the Gospel of Mary Magdalene and the evidence that's come from Egypt. Klaus Schmidt, who was with the German Archaeological Institute, called this a sanctuary and called these T-shaped pillars representations of gods. He's joining us from Uruguay, where he has wisely chosen to spend his pandemic isolation. Because every time I think about ancient wine, I am now immediately thinking about wine that is spiked. Do the drugs, Dr. Stang? That's one narrative that I feel is a little sensational. The Tim Ferriss Show | iHeart We don't have to look very hard to find that. Joe Campbell puts it best that what we're after is an experience of being alive. Brian has been very busy taking his new book on the road, of course, all online, and we're very grateful to him for taking the time to join us this evening. Before I set forth the outline of this thesis, three topics must be discussed in order to establish a basic understanding of the religious terminology, Constantine's reign, and the contemporary sources. So my biggest question is, what kind of wine was it? And shouldn't we all be asking that question? So the closer we get to the modern period, we're starting to find beer, wine mixed with interesting things. That is, by giving, by even floating the possibility of this kind of-- at times, what seems like a Dan Brown sort of story, like, oh my god, there's a whole history of Christianity that's been suppressed-- draws attention, but the real point is actually that you're not really certain about the story, but you're certain is that we need to be more attentive to this evidence and to assess it soberly. #646: Brian C. Muraresku with Dr. Mark Plotkin The Eleusinian They did not. Is there a smoking gun? To be a Catholic is to believe that you are literally consuming the blood of Christ to become Christ. So I have my concerns about what's about to happen in Oregon and the regulation of psilocybin for therapeutic purposes. I want to thank you for putting up with me and my questions. He's talking about kind of psychedelic wine. That's, just absurd. Get personalized recommendations, and learn where to watch across hundreds of streaming providers. Dogs, indicative of the Greek goddess Hecate, who, amongst other things was known as the [GREEK], the dog eater. They linked the idea of witches to an imagined organized sect which was a danger to the Christian commonwealth. That they were what you call extreme beverages. BRIAN MURARESKU: We can dip from both pies, Dr. Stang. You also find a Greek hearth inside this sanctuary. It's some kind of wine-based concoction, some kind of something that is throwing these people into ecstasy. I want to thank you for your candor. And Brian, once again, thank you so much. The answer seems to be connected to psychedelic drugs. Although she's open to testing, there was nothing there. All rights reserved. And that's where oversight comes in handy. I would have been happy to find a spiked wine anywhere. Amongst all the mystery religions, Eleusis survives. Now I want to get to the questions, but one last question before we move to the discussion portion. You see an altar of Pentelic marble that could only have come from the Mount Pentelicus quarry in mainland Greece. And it seems to me that if any of this is right, that whatever was happening in ancient Greece was a transformative experience for which a lot of thought and preparation went into. And nor did we think that a sanctuary would be one of the first things that we construct. He calls it a drug against grief in Greek, [SPEAKING GREEK]. Now, you could draw the obvious conclusion. I do the same thing in the afterword at the very end of the book, where it's lots of, here's what we know. For me, that's a question, and it will yield more questions. BRIAN MURARESKU: Great question. Frankly, if you ask the world's leading archaeobotanists and archaeochemists, where's the spiked beer and where's the spiked wine, which I've been doing since about 2007, 2008, the resounding answer you'll get back from everybody is a resounding no. So I present this as proof of concept, and I heavily rely on the Gospel of John and the data from Italy because that's what was there. The divine personage in whom this cult centered was the Magna Mater Deum who was conceived as the source of all life as well as the personification of all the powers of nature.\[Footnote:] Willoughby, Pagan Regeneration, p. 114.\ 7 She was the "Great Mother" not only "of all the gods," but of all men" as well. BRIAN MURARESKU: Right. And now we have a working hypothesis and some data to suggest where we might be looking. The book was published by Saint Martin's Press in September 2020 and has generated a whirlwind of attention.
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